An SGA Poll asking “Are you in favor of allowing someone with a concealed handgun license to carry a handgun on campus?” has increased on-campus discussion of controversial House Bill 2513.
The bill would allow individuals who have concealed-weapon licenses to bring those weapons on campus.
Student Government Association senators will consider 12 pieces of legislation during tonight’s Senate meeting, most notably “A Recommendation to the Oklahoma State Legislature Condemning House Bill 2513.”
Senators will be presented with the poll results, which will determine whether the recommendation is sent, prior to the recommendation deliberation.
The poll ends today at 9 a.m.
Erika Curry, a film studies junior, said she is wary of weapons on campus because she believes an increased amount of guns could set the table for more violence.
“I’m not for taking someone’s rights away, but I don’t think campuses are the place for concealed weapons,” Curry said. “When your rights violate my safety, those aren’t your rights anymore.”
Former Sen. George Odom, an economics junior, said students should be allowed to carry weapons on campus because the law would decrease the number of individuals thinking they could successfully complete a school shooting.
“I should have right to carry a concealed weapon on campus,” Odom said. “If people are concerned about shootings on campus, that’s all the better reason to have the ability to defend yourself.”
Austin Linton, committee on student organizations chairman, said sending recommendations to legislators is an effective way to express the student opinion.
“I hope that whatever we send regarding House Bill 2513 is classy, whether it be in opposition or support,” Linton said. “Being loud or shouting our opinion only causes lawmakers to tune us out.”
Budget Chairman Michael Gumbs said the budget committee passed eight bills Monday night during its meeting, including the budget for “Street Party ’08,” an April event held in downtown Stillwater.
The committee made a few suggestions to the $10,770 “Street Party ’08” budget, Gumbs said. The changes consisted of increased seating near the food and concert areas as well as added bathroom facilities throughout the area.
Sen. Tyler Powell will present seven co-sponsorship bills that, if passed by the Senate, will benefit a variety of groups, he said.
The meeting starts at 7 p.m. in Case Study 2 of the Student Union. Senators encourage students to attend the meeting and voice concerns. For more information on the SGA Senate, visit http://www.osusga.com.
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>“When your rights violate my safety, those aren’t your rights anymore.”
What makes concealed weapons more dangerous on campus than in other public places? Do not worry, because statistically, your fears are unfounded, as those with CCW permits are five times less likely to commit crimes than those without.
When you debate this, remember that only about 1% of Americans have permits as it is. Don’t expect to have a majority of those speaking out to support concealed carry - we cannot possibly multiply our numbers on campus by 50 overnight so please listen to the few that show up!
It is simple. We have enacted laws that require everyone, regardless of their own personal choice or desire, to properly wear a safety belt in the event of an automobile accident. The safety belt is a defense mechanism that has the possibility of limiting if not completely preventing injury under the most extreme of circumstances. There is no difference between a gun and a safety belt. I hardly think that anyone who puts on their safety belt each time they enter a motor vehicle does so because they fear that they are going to wreck and die. For most of us it is simply a precautionary measure that statistically increases the chance of survival. Similarly, for those students who have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, it is a precautionary measure. It is a tool, not a weapon. It is a tool that, when the time comes, has the potential of saving lives. People who have taken the time and effort to obtain a permit, have learned and understand the consequences involved with that responsibility, and have made the personal decision to, as the situation necessitates, defend not only themselves, but those around them, are not violating the safety of any one. They are protecting it.
Uh, no. Guns ARE weapons, and they are very different from seat-belts. I thought this was common knowledge, but maybe I’m wrong…
And by wrong I mean sane.
Seth, to my knowledge, people usually don’t kill each other with seat-belts, and gun shots rarely save lives. They kinda hurt.
Please leave the weapons at home. We have the police for a reason. I should say more, but this debate will not be productive, and I feel people are not thinking clearly.
You’re right, Jeremy, some people are not thinking clearly. When statistics saying people with a CCW permit are very unlikely to commit a crime(and almost all of those aren’t even violent crimes) and statistics show that crime drops in areas where concealed weapons are allowed, ingnoring those statistics is a sure sign that someone isn’t thinking clearly.
The fact is, concealed carry isn’t just about defending against mass shootings. There are other circumestances where a gun could be life saving, even without a shot being fired at all.
I think you’re probably not saying more because you have no statistics or hard evidence to back up what you believe. However, I fully support your right to believe it, and your right not to debate it.
One other thing I find a little funny Jeremy… how do you think the police save lives?
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Senators will be presented with the poll results, which will determine whether the recommendation is sent, prior to the recommendation deliberation.
The poll ends today at 9 a.m.
———————————–
Wait a minute, what were the poll results and what did the SGA do with regards to the reccomendation as a result?
It’s not on the SGA’s website this morning, OSU’s main page, or even in the O’Colly.
I thought that’s why we had a campus newspaper, to keep us informed about things like this.
Chris- The results of the the poll showed a high majority of students were against guns on campus. SGA passed the recommendation against HB2513 unanimously.
Furthermore, the students coming and speaking in favor of guns did nothing but spark fear in the senate. One guy said “What if I was in a club and you didn’t give me the money I wanted and I did this?” He opened his jacket, had a holster, and pretended to pull a gun out and shoot the senate. “I could have just shot four clips at you”.
People like that man are the reason that guns should not be allowed on campus.
And I don’t know why we never post our bills or our agendas or the minutes on the SGA site. You should mention that to VP Lehenbauer.
Your fears of legally armed citizens are unfounded. People carry guns around every day without using them for leverage in negotiations or to end argeuments. You just don’t know about it because these guns are concealed, so you’ll never see them as long as they stay concealed.
Conversely, fear of Illegally armed criminals is very well justified. These people have already shown a disrespect for the law by carrying a concealed weapon without going through the readily available process of “being legal.” But why don’t they go through the process if it’s so simple to apply? Perhaps they have a violent crime on their record that would disqualify them for the permit. Or perhaps they have a history of mental illness. Or maybe they are just nervous about having their fingerprints on file FBI for fear of easier identification in the event of some future crime. All of these are good reasons to carry a concealed weapon without a permit, and they all cause me to distrust someone who is illegally armed more than someone who is legally armed.
Shayna, it was not a high majority. It was 58%. 40% of students who voted were FOR HB 2513. Not only that, but 9 of 29 senators voted to NOT send the denouncement, and 1 abstained. This is not a high majority, but a simple majority.
Remember, Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Shayna, while I don’t agree with what the man with the empty holster did, I think he was trying to illustrate a point that seems to be missed by all opponents of the bill. If someone were to unexpectedly pull a gun on you, what are you going to do? Ask them to hold on while you call the cops? Turn and run?
Just something to consider.
“I thought that’s why we had a campus newspaper, to keep us informed about things like this.”
I wrote a review about last night’s SGA Senate meeting. Not sure why it didn’t make it to the Web site.
It’s in today’s paper, though.
LOL, probably because of these one sided debates, Sean. It was a good article by the way. Unbiased. which is rare. Thanks.
I would love to leave my “defensive” abilities at home… but criminals refuse to give me a set schedule of when they will show up… so better prepared than dead.
Sean, you are correct. I can’t believe I missed your article.
I am, however, surprised that after being given such attention in yesterday’s paper, it was only a minor story in today’s, and seems to have not been mentioned on any OSU affiliated site.
In response to Shayna:
As a senator I can vouch for the actions taken during last night’s senate meeting. The vote was not unanimous and the student/faculty member that expresses concerns presented a good case for why concealed guns on campus is appropriate. I, nor many other senators, were frightened. Do not bash students nor exaggerate/pervert (lie) about what Senators thought last night. Although there was a majority that did not support guns on campus, there was a strong minority that did.
I would refrain from your extremely biased position and take a more open, intellectual, and impartial [wise] approach on these issues. You represent more students than just yourself in your opinions. It is okay to have beliefs but not to be so igorant as to be blind.
Thanks.
You’ve earned my vote, Mr. Stukenborg.
Ben,
Thank you for correcting me on the SGA vote, I was mistaken when I woke up this morning.
Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of students in RHA senate and Arts and Sciences Student Council were against guns on campus. Only four people in A&S were for HB2513. Eric Smith and I polled both groups and asked their opinions on the matter. Did you talk to your constituents or did you vote on your own biased opinion that guns should be allowed on campus?
I take offense to you calling me ignorant and closed minded. You know that is not how I am and that is an unfair representation of me. I’ve done the research.
I don’t see the benefit of carrying a gun to class “just in case”. There was a lot of respect for guns in my home growing up. They are best kept there- locked and unloaded.
A very small percentage of Oklahomans carry guns. Chris Bird’s Fourth Edition “The Concealed Handgun Manual” says that 1.75% of Oklahomans have a concealed handgun permit. Is it necessary to have more firearms around? And why give that right to students? I would feel more comfortable allowing teachers to have guns and not students.
Reuters reported back in August that the US is the world’s most heavily armed society. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL28348
93820070828?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0
Check out the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics.
Violence with firearms had dropped for years due to stronger restrictions on guns. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm
Even though the numbers were dropping, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime report from 2000 established that the U.S. had the highest rates of murders and crimes committed with a firearm among developed nations.
I am not against having guns, I am just against students carrying guns to class. Guns on campus is not the solution to counter rare acts of student vigilantism.
One more thing: Statistically, on the senate vote there was a high majority. It’s just over 3/4 of the senators.
Senators opposed to HB2513-
29/38 = 76%
Senators for HB2513-
9/38= 24%
Abstentions don’t factor in to a vote.
Reported mass shootings at “gun free zones”:
Many
Reported mass shootings at shooting ranges:
Zero
Which is safer?
Professors carrying guns were never brought up (or I could have scanned over it). But this bill still doesn’t allow professors or staff members to carry weapons.
If you were a prof, and a student could carry a handgun in your classroom, would you want to teach here? Your pay is already lower than a lot of other places and the benefits are still low. But with this bill, the kid receiving a D for the first time in his/her life is looking at you with a gun at his/her hip.
With this bill, it’d be hard to hire/keep more professors. This happened, I think, in Colorado.
Why don’t the people who favor concealed carry on campus just bring their guns anyway? If a situation arises in which they have to use their gun, and they successfully stop a school-shooter, I’m sure no charges will be pressed against them. Why is the permit so important? I never had a permit to bring massive amounts of beer into the dorms, but I did it anyway. Frankly, I don’t like the idea of one person having a permit to do something that I don’t have a permit to do. It’s not fair. So bring your guns, no one’s stopping you. Forget the stupid permit.
The crazy old man was my father, the reason he did his demonstration was to show you just how easy it is to have a gun illegally in a class room setting, how many lives would have been lost in just a few seconds before the police could have been there. And how easy it would have been for one student with a concealed weapons permit to save not only his own life but the lives of a lot more people in the class room. For any of you that will read this and have any questions I will do me best to keep up with this page and answer any question that you may have.
Thank you
Dusty.
Justin.
the reason that a person with a permit will not just bring there gun anyway is because we are law obiding people and it is illegal for us to carry on campus. not to mention that if cought we would be kicked out of school, loose our permits, and get a heave fine. and as far as it not being fair for you to carry unless you are not legally able to obtain a permit you can get one so it is fair.
thanks for your imput
The crazy old at the SGA meeting was my father, the reason he did his demonstraton was to show you just how easy it is to have a gu illegally in a class room setting, how many lives would have been lost n just a few seconds before the poliece could have been there. And how easy it would have been for one student with a concealed weapons permit to save not only hs own life but the lives of a lot more people int the class room. for any of you that will read this and have any questions i will do my best to keep up with this site and answer and question that you may have.
Thank you
Dusty
I guess I just don’t see the point of permits, period. Anyone should be able to carry a gun around if they want. The criminals will carry them around without a permit, so why should everyone else be forced to have a permit? I’m against permits. All the permits do is make the criminals the most heavily armed. Get rid of the permits and allow the good guys to pack heat whenever and wherever they want. Call me old-fashioned, but I think the Old West was way more progressive on this issue.
I think that Hargis should be forced to appologize for his completely inappropriate comment, something like ~ ‘that will give us a real incentive not to fail anybody’ suggesting that students with concealed carry permits who get bad grades would pull their guns on their pofessors. Crazy people who would do that would bring a gun anyway…why would they need a permit? Holders of permits undergo FBI background checks and are checked out personally by the police. Hargis’ remark was slanderous, insulting, inappropriate, and not befitting a newly elected university president.
Anyone can apply for a permit. You are not being discriminated against unless you have a history of violent crime, drug abuse, mental defect, or a felony.
I don’t carry a weapon on campus because it’s illegal. I am not a criminal, otherwise I would have never got the permit to begin with.
Like Mr. Gabbert, I don’t carry my gun to campus mainly because I don’t want to break the rules. I also don’t want to be a victim if it can be helped. On a side note, the permit carries along with it training with the firearm, to make sure you hit what you’re supposed to, and legal counsel, to tell you what you are and aren’t entitled to do. They teach that your gun is your “defensive” weapon. This means permit holders have been trained not to go find a shooter on campus, but are trained to de-escalate a situation should the shooter find them.